Are you sick of the waffle we get from solar hot water manufacturers and distributors.?

First published, UK,  20 August, 2011

Do you know someone with a solar hot water system who is guaranteed 100% happy ?

“A number of people are writing about their frustration over the lack of credible information about the performance of solar hot water systems, be they manufacturers or suppliers. The usual comments, it will do 70% of your annual hot water needs are at best philosophical as there is ZERO substance to back it up before a sale OR even after a sale. One solar hot water user, after 4 years has commented that he still has no idea as to what his system is doing after 4 years OR even if it is working efficiently and correctly. He also commented that it seems impossible to prove the 70% sales comment right or wrong due to this lack of information.”

“It seems strange in the year 2011, with all the technology which could show people who really has the best, most powerful solar hot water systems on the market, only one manufacturer, Surface Power, are the only ones opening up their data publicly on how their systems are performing so we can figure it out before we spend our money. Firstly, I commend that as a gutsy move, and the results are very impressive, but I think it says more about the rest of the industry. If other solar hot water system manufacturers are not the best or even are of questionable performance, or (and I hadn’t considered this until I heard a few horror stories) are installed in a way that the manufacturer or distributors don’t really care about (they just want sales, not quality installations), the result will not be great. I think every solar hot water system manufacturer should prove the performance of their systems instead of hiding behind fancy brochures and generic industry waffle.”

” I noted a comment from a Surface Power presentation at a London experts conference on the RHI and the speaker said that with their online systems, they can control and monitor every aspect of the supply chain including installation quality via their cost per kWhr metric. I got that translated afterwards and it basically means that every system design is controlled by them which means that all systems should perform in a certain way once installed. If they don’t perform correctly, they can see it anywhere in the world and take action. This was a light-bulb moment for me; as doing my research for the RHI, it was obvious that to get your RHI payments maximised, you need to make sure the system is 100% efficient ALL OF THE TIME or you could get a lower tariff payments. For Example; What happens if the pump starts to fail or the pressure in the system drops or a sensor starts to fail, it may be months before you know anything about it and you could be losing RHI tariff payments all the time.”

“At the Eco Show; I also asked another supplier representative why they could not show performance publicly and he told me “off the record” that if they were to start showing performance in real-time publicly, that it wouldn’t give you any valuable information. I pointed out to him, that I was currently using such data elsewhere and it was extremely valuable. He then offered me a brochure and I asked him if he would refund me if the system he sold me did not do the “”75%”" of annual hot water demand stated on his brochure.”

“This was the “piece de la resistance” or the “iceing on the cake”, whatever suits you, he said yes. So I asked him how he would prove the system did the 75% and he kindly told me that I would have to prove it didn’t and hence I end up right back where I started.”

“It is really just starting to dawn on me, that there will be huge comparison confusion between Solar PV feed-in-tariff payments and RHI payments. A Solar PV system just goes on your roof, connects to the house electrical system and it spins the meter, the only thing that can influence it is the weather. But what about RHI, it seems to me that if you install a solar hot water system to heat water, you need to be concerned about so many other factors. What if someone leaves the boiler control on by accident (for months) ?  Will it heat the cylinder/pool, etc at night and in the morning the solar has less work to do and instead of getting the maximum RHI payment, you don’t and plus you used gas/oil or something else that you didn’t need to.”

“I think its time the manufacturers need to own up to their systems performance, its important as it means higher RHI payments. Passing the responsibility to installers is not credible. Using generic industry waffle is not credible anymore. Lets see more evidence, facts, figures and SUBSTANCE”.

 JP. Jones.

If you had a solar hot water system with a 300L cylinder in dreary August weather as we have today “again”, with 1 standard 2.5 sqm aperture flat plate collector, how do you think it would be performing at 10:53am ?

Here’s a Surface Power system today with a 300L cylinder and 2.85 sqm Surface Power collector aperture at 9:53am. 

The system already has a Delta T (power band) of over +10C.

At 11:30am, approx 1.5 hours later, The system is still carrying a Delta T (power band) of approx +10C, and the cylinder has been raised in temperature by +9C in cloudy weather.

The size of this system also shows how powerful it is in relation to existing old style solar technology.  

There is an OLD solar industry assumption that you must face your solar system SOUTH for it to work.

This may be correct of legacy solar technology BUT Surface Power solar systems don’t use legacy anything. All SP systems are driven by daylight using a new technology called Thermodynamic Laminar Flow Science with MPPTt (maximum power point tracking – thermal) power band management.

THIS MEANS THE SYSTEMS JUST NEED DAYLIGHT. This technology was designed to work with zero sunshine.

HENCE, a Surface Power system CAN face a Northerly direction as there is LIGHT available North, WEst, East and South.

Aug 22nd; Below, we can highlight this performance of Surface Power’s propritary solar thermal technology in a distinct comparison between 2 x SP501′s installations EXCEPT one is a South facing installation and the other is a North facing installation.

This highlights in realtime, how DAYLIGHT is the only FUEL you need to get solar central heating and hot water inputs using Surface Power’s technology.

Aug 22nd; weather cloudy; The first system below is an SP501 PRO, our best selling solar hot water system. You can see that it has a collector temperature of 63.4C and a cylinder temperature of approx 54.6C. (a Delta T of 9C approx)

The next system below is also an SP501N PRO BUT it faces a Northerly installation direction and according to the industry experts on this cloudy day should barely produce any energy at all. HOWEVER, as you can clearly see, it is nearly on a par with its south facing counterpart at 12:15 when clearly any light is strongly coming from the opposite direction.

BUT, it still has collector temperatures of 63.2C and cylinder temperature of just over 54C. This is all in cloudy weather.

Both systems are NECK AND NECK JUST AFTER 12 NOON, Now that’s outstanding performance from DAYLIGHT and highlights just how more advanced Surface Powers technology is compared to legacy Solar Thermal technology.

Don’t take our word for it; All this data is live 24/7 and available publically, just look at the web addresses in the task bar and follow it yourself. (customer permissions received) 

Proof, not promises !!

And just in case you think the weather was excellent in Bournemouth; Weather images in the last 3 days from Bournemouth, UK, site of the Northerly facing example used. Images from the news services.

There is an OLD solar industry assumption that you must face your solar hot water system SOUTH for it to work.

This may be correct of legacy solar technology BUT Surface Power solar systems don’t use legacy anything. All SP systems are driven by daylight using a new technology called Thermodynamic Laminar Flow Science with MPPTt (maximum power point tracking – thermal) power band management.

THIS MEANS THE SYSTEMS JUST NEED DAYLIGHT. This technology was designed to work with zero sunshine.

HENCE, a Surface Power system CAN face a Northerly direction as there is LIGHT available North, WEst, East and South.

Aug 22nd; Below, we can highlight this performance of Surface Power’s propritary solar thermal technology in a distinct comparison between 2 x SP501′s installations EXCEPT one is a South facing installation and the other is a North facing installation.

This highlights in realtime, how DAYLIGHT is the only FUEL you need to get solar central heating and hot water inputs using Surface Power’s technology.

August 21st, weather cloudy; The first system below is an SP501 PRO, our best selling system. You can see that it has a collector temperature of 54.9C and a cylinder temperature of approx 40C.

The next system below is also an SP501N PRO BUT it faces a Northerly installation direction and according to the industry experts on this cloudy day should barely produce any energy. HOWEVER, as you can clearly see, it is nearly on a par with its south facing counterpart at 13:23 when clearly any light is coming from the opposite direction.

BUT, it still has collector temperatures of 51C and cylinder temperature of just over 41C. This is all in cloudy weather.

Don’t take our word for it; All this data is live 24/7 and available publically, just look at the web addresses in the task bar and follow it yourself. (customer permissions received)

Proof, not promises !!

And just in case you think the weather was excellent in Bournemouth; Weather images in the last 3 days from Bournemouth, UK, site of the Northerly facing example used. Images from the news services.

Renewable Energy World.com

New reports are showing that the old style solar flat plate collector is on the decline since 2009 AND that solar central heating installations are becoming more important than just solar hot water.

The flat plate collector can trace its origins to 1891 (No, not 1981 but 1891) when it was originally developed and today’s current flat plate collectors are attributed to the 1950′s developed by Hottel and Whillier. Very little innovation has occurred with flat plate collectors since. They are simply a box with a glass lid and some pipes inside. There are still many flat plate collectors made from wood for sale today, (believe it or not)

1891 — Baltimore inventor Clarence Kemp (“the father of solar energy in the U.S.”) patents first commercial Climax Solar Water Heater. By 1910, the Climax had competition, especially from the Night and Day solar hot water company, which used a secondary loop from the collector to a water tank. By 1920, over 5,000 Night and Day heaters had been sold in California At the same time, a boom in solar hot water heaters started in Florida, where electricity was a very expensive competitor. About 15,000 units were sold by 1937. (Butt & Perlin)

The latest report from the IEA (International Energy Agency), highlight that 2009 figures show another ground breaking increase in solar thermal by 36.5 GWth, an increase of approx 25% in global solar hot water collectors, BUT the good news is for innovative newer solar thermal vacuum panels from company’s who have been investing heavily in R&D. These technologies are all using vacuum based designs and these technologies accounted for most of the world growth at a staggering 35%.

Flat Plate collector growth was stagnant at a little over 2% in 2009 and although the IEA figures do not include 2010, all the evidence suggests that this pattern continued in 2010 as well.   

 This means that many of the flat plate manufacturers in Europe faced a challenging economic year in 2009, and again in 2010, while innovative vacuum based collector manufacturers growth is booming.

Another clear sign in the market is coming from Austria and Germany with Solar Central Heating becoming the norm. These specialised applications need the highest performance and newest innovative solar panel technologies. This may well be an indication of why there is a dramatic shift. It is well known that flat plates work fine if you live in a  climate with good blue sky sunshine. The shift to all year solar thermal systems could lead to the complete demis of the outdated flat plate collector. (although a 120 year history for the solar flat plate has been a significant lifespan)

According to the Solar Heat Worldwide report; Austria who has always led the original solar thermal market had 45% of its solar installations in 2009 installed as solar central heating & hot water versus 45% hot water only. Germany had 35% of its new installations in 2009 installed as solar central heating & hot water systems. This represents HUGE growth in these more complex and challenging systems and may account for the dominance of more powerful solar vacuum panel technologies.

Top 10 world markets for solar hot water panels – 2009.

One major installer group which specialises in Solar central heating & hot water systems commented:

“we saw the writing on the wall in 2009 when we stopped installing flat plates. They simply were no competition for solar vacuum collectors. Since then, we will now only work with a hand full of vacuum manufacturers as even some vacuum collectors, mainly heat pipe ones are completely unpredictable for performance and the construction materials are questionable. There are some newer solar vacuum panels from company’s who have invested heavily in R&D programs and they are leading the way in performance. 50% of our work is now combination solar central heating & hot water systems so we can no longer guess about performance, we need proof because our customers are much better informed and they demand it”.

ESTIF President, Robin Welling said: The solar industry has experienced the full impact of the financial crisis. we expected to get some benefit of the combined implementation of the binding renewable targets and higher energy performance standards – but this process is only beginning.

In Summary, There is a clear message coming from the data just released, with a history of over 100 years, the solar flat plate collector is in decline and has struggled to successfully move into markets where weather is poorer versus the initial sunny summer markets like Austria and Germany.  These all year round solar central heating applications “even in Germany” need real performance, not smoke and mirrors, and ironically, as these sunny markets move to solar central heating and hot water systems, they are now turning their back on the old type solar flat plate collector in favour of newer R&D backed solar vacuum collectors to deliver this “all year requirement” expected from future installations. 

If you still drove a car designed in the 1950′s, this is what you would be driving.

If you still drove a car designed in 1891, this is what you would be driving a Peugeot Type 3 Quadricycle.

We thought we would share with you the 10 most interesting things our customers told us this week. (grammer is as supplied)

1. T.K. 26782229

Guys, you should force your installers to “emphasise” that your collectors are ALUMINIUM. I only found out by accident. The sales guy from your partner never mentioned it !!!. The best and most expensive cars in the world are made from aluminium as its expensive and lasts forever. If I had been told this, I would have placed my order immediately, you don’t get more quality in a product like this than aluminium as the material its made from.

P.S. I ordered a system anyway on the performance, rockin !!!.

2. W.W. 78827798

Got the whole online thing installed, well impressed that you identified a faulty sensor which was duly replaced by the installer on the first day. That could have been a fault for years that I would never know about. 10 out of 10 so far.

3. G.B. 166681680 

Hi, on holidays on the beach, If needed or wanted to turn on my central heating system to run heat into my radiators as I’m away and not using any hot water, can I do it, I guess not but I thought I’d ask ?

RESPONSE: Before you leave for holidays, you can change your stat setting to do this, but if you need we can change it for you anytime so we’ve turned on your heating system control and changed your set point. You can change it back when you come home or just drop us an email and we’ll do it.

4. K.L. 389837831

I want to change my setting for my upper tank temperature to 80C, how do i do that ?

RESPONSE: You don’t need to do anything, it’s done. If you need it changed again, let us know.

5. B.McW. 837938799

I want to install a system in a holiday home that I only use in summer, will the system be safe for months when no one is there ?

RESPONSE: Yes, just plug your broadband connection into our system and you can watch it anywhere in the world and we’ll make any changes you need while you are away.

6. T.McG 2838757392

I have an SP501PRO system installed, just want to say it is doing exactly what it said on the tin, fantastic performance in crap weather, wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it with my own eyes, gave you another 5 recommendations this week alone. Super system.

7. G.D. 737928322

Hi, the waters too hot from my solar system, I want to lower the temperature coming to the taps, whats the best way.?

RESPONSE: Looking at your system profile, your usage has dropped in the last 2 months, so you may have less people in the house. The best method would be to upgrade the hot out with a tempering valve. Its a simple valve that mixes cold water at the cylinder with the hot out and you can set it to a fixed temperature. It’s a simple upgrade for your installer.

REPLY: Thanks, kids gone to college, so less water being used, will do that. 

8. L.M. 90300031

Hi, I’ve installed my first system, is there anyway i can check everything is OK, it was simple to install, I used all the kit but I’m worried that I may not have the settings correct ?

RESPONSE: That’s fine, settings have been modified to optimum. We will run a 2 week diagnostics on the system to ensure it is trending and profiling like others in the area.  If you don’t hear from us, all is well. You can check in on the system online using the link you were provided with. 

9. T.P. 338928999

One of my customers wants me to install a hot water package specification that is different from your guidance. I’ve said no, but they are insistant, what do i do. ?

RESPONSE: All non standard requests for designs, package adjustments OR commercial, etc must get approval from the support team at support@surfacepower.com (24/7), note: busy time is 8pm GMT to Midnight GMT and Saturdays 

10 D. O’L. 558225011

I was told by my installer that he did not get design approval for my solar central heating project. Why not, I want to install your system, do you normally refuse sales ?

RESPONSE: Design approval must be given for all non standard installations, this is how we control installer quality. If you want to engage directly with support at support@surfacepower.com you can complete the process directly until you get an approved design.

Surface Power’s solar technology is a daylight technology. Here we will look at 2 x SP501PRO systems, one is facing a southerly direction and one is facing a northerly direction. We will look at both systems towards the end of the day.

Because daylight is the only input required to achieve hot water requirements in a Surface Power system, we should see similar performance from both systems regardless of which direction they are facing. This of course is not the outcome you would expect from legacy solar type collectors which must face a southerly direction and require sun for optimal performance.

Here is the weather profile during the observations, lots of cloud, sometimes bright but cloudy at both locations. 

17:21 - First observations below of both systems are taken at 17:21. Daily Performance and Outcome is practically identical with significant temperatures achieved in cloudy weather on both systems.

17:53 - Next observations below of both systems are taken at 17:53. Daily Performance and Outcome is practically identical with significant temperatures achieved in cloudy weather on both systems.

18:22 - Next observations below of both systems are taken at 18:22. Daily Performance and Outcome is practically identical with significant temperatures achieved in cloudy weather on both systems.

18:29 - Next observations below of both systems are taken at 18:29. Daily Performance and Outcome is practically identical with significant temperatures achieved in cloudy weather on both systems.

19:09 - Next observations below of both systems are taken at 19:09. Daily Performance and Outcome is practically identical with significant temperatures achieved in cloudy weather on both systems.

19:37 - Next observations below of both systems are taken at 19:37. Daily Performance and Outcome is practically identical with significant temperatures achieved in cloudy weather on both systems.

RESULT: Now you see how 2 x SP501 PRO systems (approx 5 sqm) actually ended up only a degree or two apart at the end of the day. Even though the weather was not great, they both made very credible temperatures of nearly 70C.

Next we will show you the full power curves of both systems for the day, WATCH HOW a Surface Power system produces power ALL DAY and not using the old style “differential temperature control” method of pump ON/pump OFF. This technology is patented technology only available in Surface Power solar hot water systems. 

This post is to highlight how powerful a standard Surface Power solar system is in poor weather EVEN though it faces a Northerly direction (the opposite side to the sun). The system is located in Bournemouth, UK.

This was the weather today, below is the rain doppler radar at 16:15 showing heavy rainfall. (note: cloud cover would be widespread, this radar only detects rainfall.) 

Next rain doppler radar below is 5pm.

Now, we can look at the live data from a system in the UK. This system is facing a Northerly direction, at complete odds with a normal solar system which must face a Southerly direction.

YESTERDAY THIS SYSTEM OUTPERFORMED LEGACY SOLAR SYSTEMS FACING SOUTH IN THE BAD WEATHER.

YES, TO SUM THIS UP, A STANDARD SURFACE POWER SOLAR HOT WATER SYSTEM FACING A NORTHERLY DIRECTION PRODUCED 100% OF TOTAL HOT WATER REQUIREMENTS YESTERDAY EVEN THOUGH THE WEATHER WAS VERY WET & CLOUDY. 

This standard solar hot water system below at 9:31am shows the collectors already achieving a Delta T of +5.5C even though the system is facing a Northerly direction.

This standard solar hot water system below at 11:45am shows the collectors achieving a Delta T of +9.6C even though the system is facing a Northerly direction and the cylinder has increased in temperature by 11C.

This standard solar hot water system below at 1:10pm shows the collectors achieving a Delta T of +10.1C even though the system is facing a Northerly direction and the cylinder has increased in temperature by another 7C, thats 18C in total by lunchtime in poor weather.

Finally; this standard solar hot water system below at 5:53pm shows the system at the end of the day in heavy rain  and the cylinder has increased in temperature to 54C, well past the 100% point of 40 Celcius.

Even a north facing system in bad weather can be overcome by Surface Power’s technology.

There are some views that all Solar Hot Water technology is similar or close enough to each other that it really doesn’t matter.

We of course “don’t agree”, and the reason we don’t agree is that we can prove they are NOT all the same AND it really DOES matter.!!  (no one else has access to our patented solar thermal technology)

You’ll also notice that we don’t parade our solar systems when there is lots of sunshine, we want you to see how our systems work when light levels are low and weather is very challenged.

Today is another terrible solar day, with a major rain front crossing the country. We will look at a selection of Surface Power solar hot water systems AND we will see that ALL of them are well above 100% of their full and complete daily hot water needs at 4:30pm. (NO BOILER, NO IMMERSION, ALL FROM LOW LEVELS OF DAYLIGHT)

This is the Met office rain Live Doppler at approx 16:31 showing THE 3 sample locations for Surface Power systems shown below. (PLEASE NOTE; this is not cloud below BUT actual LIVE RAIN information, cloud cover would be widespread.)

This YouTube video below will show you what that weather looks like LIVE at 16:30 !

First location below is Mayo at 16:27, water has achieved 47.8C in the cylinder with 59.4C remaining in the upper part of the cylinder. (some of our competitors would be proud of this performance on a summers day)

Next location below is Offaly at 16:27, water has achieved 47.1C in the cylinder with 47.9C remaining in the upper part of the cylinder. This means this system achieved a FULL 300L cylinder of water today. (the whole cylinder started at 24.2C this morning)

Next location below is Donegal at 16:27, water has achieved 53C in the cylinder.

We have systems LIVE 24/7 so you can follow our systems over time.

August was an interesting month at the support desk at Surface Power. Lots of questions came flooding in on the performance of solar hot water systems due to another ”poor weather” month of August. Because the weather has been so poor, everybody has been seeking comparisons of their own solar systems (not manufactured by us) versus Surface Power solar systems as we openly publish LIVE data on systems.

Alot of you are declaring that you are less than impressed with the other systems you have installed, and that they are not meeting the expectations on which you were sold them. Lots of you are complaining that your boiler was proividing significant amounts of your hot water so far during August.

Due to the number of requests for educational assistance from our team on this subject this month, we have decided to publish this update to help anyone who is not happy with the other make system they may have purchased.

Regardless of make; there are a few basic reasons why the other solar system you purchased may not perform as you may like it too;

1. It may be undersized, you may have been sold “a 1 panel solar system”, (one panel doth not make a solar system !), SO simply divide the sqm aperture of the total solar panels into the size of your cylinder. For example: If you had solar panels of 2 sqm of aperture and a 300L cylinder then thats 1 sqm:150L which will have a very disappointing output.
2. Is the solar system package a manufacturers recommended package, ask for the details from the manufacturer. Ask them (the manufacturer) to stand over the design of the system. (this strategy is a very good safeguard)
3. Is the system designed for UK & Irish climates, are the solar panels designed to operate in cloudy and mediocre weather, are they flat plates ? (then don’t expect them to provide all your hot water without a boiler unless it’s a summers day), are they vacuum heat pipe, or other type of solar collector. THIS IS EASY TO SOLVE: ASK TO TALK TO CUSTOMERS or FOLLOW LIVE DATA ON PERFORMANCE ONLINE (IF THEY ARE BRAVE ENOUGH TO LET YOU SEE IT ).

It may surprise many people to learn that Surface Power installers install more systems in winter than they do in summer, the reason is simple, our systems STILL WORK in winter. (see the North facing system installed in the UK below for example), this system faces the opposite direction to the sun so only works on light and performs better than our competitors facing south in sunlight.

We are seeing many more requests for the correction/fixing of existing solar hot water systems. This could be avoided by choosing the correct system in the first place by making sure the manufacturer is standing over the system designs that are being recommended. At all times, you can contact us on support@surfacepower.com to validate any system design being offered to you by our installer network. 

The KEY DESIGN requirement of a Solar Hot Water system is to keep the boiler OFF. Getting water to 30C or 35C is a failed design, it may seem great to get water temperature up by 15C or 20C in summer as an a achievement, it simply means you have to turn your boiler/immersion ON to heat the rest of the water which is very inefficient. YOU SHOULD HAVE A SOLAR DESIGN WHICH HEATS ALL YOUR WATER ABOVE THE MINIMUM TEMPERATURE THE MOST DAYS POSSIBLE REGARDLESS OF WEATHER.   

Todays performance update: READ BELOW

 2011 is another disappointing August for weather, with lots of rain. Today, the 15th, we are mid way through the month and we still have major weather systems crossing the UK and Ireland.

BUT, have a look at what our solar systems are doing at 8:42am this morning in various places.

First one in Mayo, Ireland is in full production at 8:42am. The system already has a Delta T of 9.4C, outstanding performance using MPPTt technology and superior solar system design even in poor weather.

Next is from Donegal, Ireland at 8:42am, a system which is only 2.85 sqm of solar collector already achieving a Delta T of 12.3C.

Next is Offaly, Ireland at 8:42am, a system with a Delta T of 14C, another example of the outstanding performance of Surface Power solar systems. (Note: The Delta T is the difference in temperature between the collector and the bottom of the cylinder and the higher the difference, the higher the power band, i.e. the amount of kWhrs produced)

Next is Bournemouth , UK, (A SYSTEM WHICH FACES A NORTHLY DIRECTION) in the UK at 9:17am this morning achieving a Delta T of 8.8C, this performance is BETTER than most normal solar systems facing SOUTH in SUNSHINE at this time of morning. This outlines the significant performance of Surface Power solar systems in poor weather.

Our best advice:

It is our job as manufacturer to provide you with open and accessible information to help you with your research into solar hot water. All systems shown are customer systems. In the year 2011, You should not have to buy a solar system based on theories, probabilities and hocus pocus, it should be based on fact and examples of real outcomes. We don’t TELL you what you “SHOULD” get, we SHOW YOU what you “WILL” get. Any educational questions can be put to our support desk 24/7 on support@surfacepower.com